Installment Three: More Cops

This is the third of three installments of my moderating the VoiceofSanDiego.org Cafe San Diego
Installment One – Installment Two – Installment Three

A news report made by the Beach and Bay Press shows that 15 people were arrested by the police from this Labor Day riot. A full two thirds were arrested for being drunk in public. Six of those arrested for being drunk in public were minors. All told seven of fifteen arrested people were minors.

If this is a representative sample of the people that were at the beach during this time it tells me we had a lot of minors down on the beach drinking at the time. This is more evidence that allowing un-obstructed drinking in the beach and park environment, without adequate controls, attracts underage drinkers.

Now there’s a few problems to mention with this scenario. One, is that it is against the law for a minor to be drinking. Two, a person of legal age bought and or supplied the alcohol to the minor. Three, these young men got out of control and started attacking our city police officers. My questions include: should the police be working on determining who supplied the alcohol to these minors?

Also, does this information lead you to believe there could be a lot of minors on the beach drinking?

Finally, I wonder what you think about the statement that we just need more enforcement of existing laws, not new laws, to prevent these minors from drinking. If one looks at a bar you’ll see a bouncer for every 75 or so people. If there’s 10,000 people on the beach i.e. from the Crystal Pier to Pacific Beach Drive that would indicate, if we wanted to have our city enforce alcohol laws like we expect our bars to, that we would need 130 cops just for this area. Doesn’t this seem unreasonable? If it does then why are we demanding the police patrol the same area with six to 20 cops depending on the weekend, and then criticizing them for not doing a better job? Isn’t this a bit of a double standard?

Reader Comments:

KirkH wrote on September 7, 2007 10:12 AM:
“The SDPD has roughly 2000 employees (I just called and asked). 130 cops is 6.5%. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to have 6.5% of the force down on the beach for one a one day holiday considering the size of the crowd. Cops have more authority than bouncers because they can arrest you, taze you, shoot you, etc. So you probably wouldn’t need the same ratio as you do for bouncers.”

Jim wrote on September 7, 2007 10:41 AM:
“The truth is if people really knew the truth about how few officers there are in their neighborhoods, anywhere in the city, they would be very worried. SDPD is currently down more than 230 officers. There are another 140 or so on medical restriction and unavailable for duty. Most minor crimes are now reported over the phone and never assigned to an investigator. Many felony crimes are never investigated at all. Its not getting better but you’ll never hear the Mayor or Chief admit that. I encourage you to do your own research. You can also go to link for a weekly staffing report.”

Steve wrote on September 7, 2007 2:59 PM:
“Attempting to police a city the size and population of San Diego with a police force of 1650 is ridiculous. This alone is causing us to lose experienced officers and difficult to attract new applicants. Another thing, when a bouncer at a bar has trouble with an unruly patron, they simply throw them out the door. When an officer makes a physical arrest, they can be tied up with paperwork and transport for hours. For them to try to make a case against who supplied the alcohol would greatly increase that time and would not be prosecutable based solely on the statements of an intoxicated minor.”

Billy Bob Henry wrote on September 7, 2007 5:51 PM:
“Nice comparison Jerry, comparing the beach to a bar. Beaches have people of ALL ages who go mostly for a day in the sun and fun with a littlewater sports added in, bars ONLY have people OVER the age of 21 whose main objective is to drink alcoholic bevrages. Are you going to make any other apples to oranges comparisons to get your biased view across?????? So yes, your whole wild and completely unsupported statement is unreasonable. The only double standard is when everyone here states their view with honest facts and you state your view with completely bogus and unrelated comparisons. Sorry, wont work-except for our workfare SDPD members who will claim anythinf to get their pockets lined with more taxpayer money.”

KirkH wrote on September 8, 2007 1:32 AM:
“So basically your solution, when the city mismanages its finances and faces a shortfall, is to outlaw activities until enforcement costs drop enough to compensate for fiscal irresponsibility. You may just have a future in politics.”

Steve K wrote on September 8, 2007 2:21 AM:
“That there are under aged drinkers at the beach is why the police and lifeguards give tickets to minors with alcohol. There’s an 8 mph wheels speed limit on the boardwalk–do you want to ban bikes and skates because some people exceed that limit?”

akj wrote on September 8, 2007 3:57 AM:
“The bottom line: we need either a total alcohol ban at the beach or we need about 400 more cops added to SDPD. Otherwise the beach communities will continue to disintegrate and it will be just a matter of time before something really big blows up there, comparable to the riots in Seattle during the Biotech convention.”

Edgar wrote on September 8, 2007 4:54 AM:
“To permit this to go on, year after year, is moronic. We need a ban. If you are an upstanding citizen who likes a drink at the beach and would never, ever be caught getting drunk or in a riot and are against a ban, all I can say is too bad for you. The others have ruined it for you. We are increasingly becoming a society of cretins and slobs — self-centered idiots who care only for themselves and show restraint only when dire consequences are imminent. Not everyone belongs in this category, of course, but all must suffer. The trend is to produce an ever-increasing percentage of these slobs among the adult population, especially as slobs beget slobs. It is hard enough living with them when they are sober, let alone violently dismantling the pillars of society.”

statistics shamistics wrote on September 8, 2007 5:11 AM:
“Of course there is more crime at the beach in the summer because there are more people at the beach in the summer. DUH!! Maybe 17 million?? Impossible to know because you cannot count the number of beachgoers…any numbers you find are a guesstimate. Maybe an increase in the TOT might have helped fund increased law enforcement presence to proactively keep crowds under control???? Banning alcohol is a knee-jerk reaction because of some spoiled-rotten white boys. Just look at the news video footage. Maybe I should rethink my stand on profiling…….”

Lonnie wrote on September 8, 2007 8:35 AM:
“I’m with Edgar on this one. No none in today’s society wants to take responsibility for their actions. I have lived in San Diego for 50 years and it gets worse every year.”

KirkH wrote on September 8, 2007 8:57 AM:
“”all I can say is too bad for you”.. “all must suffer”… “it will be just a matter of time” Frankly, you people scare me. I just moved to LA so this will be my last post on the Voice, which I wish we had up here. Hopefully people here have more respect for freedom than the value of their investment properties.”

Ron Weiss wrote on September 8, 2007 11:14 AM:
“Edgar, this is getting scary. You are right on point. Today’s society has caused freedom and rights to be taken away from those that are responsible. I don’t think banning alcohol on the beach may necessarily be the right thing to do but it is the only thing we can do to protect everyone from the fools that destroy freedom for you and me. Here is a suggestion, increase our cops to citizen ratio to 2 cops per thousand and lets keep the beaches as they are. Crrently we are less than 1.4 per cops per. Pretty Sad!”

retired sdpd cop wrote on September 10, 2007 1:47 AM:
“I retired 5 years ago, on a friday night the most busy of all nights the PD had approx. 120 cops for the whole city working thats from the wild animal part to the Mexican border……….get a clue”

Fed Up wrote on September 10, 2007 2:34 AM:
“Could we just stay on point? The problems are alcohol, people who are permitted to drink themselves crazy at the beach and, of course, the spineless Mayor and City Council who can’t do what they were elected to do — legislate in the public interest. If alcohol is removed from the beach scene across the city, we will have beautiful safe beaches which can enjoyed by San Diego residents and visitors alike. What cops we have can enforce the rules. Lifeguards can again protect people from drowning in the ocean. There will be no more riots of drunk white punks. The city’s tattered reputation will begin to be repaired. And everyone’s libertarian rights will be protected. Swim, sun and picnic at the beach. Drink to your heart’s content at home or in a bar. It’s not about cops; it’s about banning booze at the beach.”

Ghermai Kelati wrote on September 10, 2007 3:38 AM:
“Escapegoat: The fact is, We can’t baby sit criminals and violent individuals. Some individuals are naturally violent when they consume alcohol. We can deal with this individuals by making them responsible for their actions. Increase the penality ot ticket or jail time. I have been drinking alcohol all my life and I have great time. You can’t tell me not to drink because some irrisponsible person got into a fight. What is going to be next. Increasing the age for drinking to over 30. How about telling people to stop driving because of some reckless drivers? onother cry babies are the beeach neughbourhood. They want to use this beach exclusively, so they advocate for alcohol ban and so forth. I can’t afford to bu a house on the beach but occasioaly I want to take my familly and kids to the beach and I might want to have a glass of wine or beer. What is wrong with that.”

Ron Weiss wrote on September 10, 2007 9:54 PM:
“Fed Up: You are completely wrong here. There is not enough cops to enforce the laws we have on the books now. Lets add another law so it won’t be enforced as it should be just like our illegal immigrants and the federal laws we do not enforce! Hold the Mayor/cops accountable yes, but give the City the protection it should have for being the 2nd largest City in Ca. If you don’t, your problem in PB will spread throughout the City”

Brian R Marvel wrote on September 11, 2007 1:29 AM:
“KirkH: SDPD currently has 1627 officer’s (9.4.07) that can work the streets, that includes the Chief on down. If there were 130 cops at the beach, that is a little less than what works the entire city for a shift. I guess the whole department showed up to work the, “Riot,” I use that term loosely. Another factoid, more cops work the Raider/Charger game than patrol the city. You speak as if our Freedom’s have been reduced. How are you less free today than ten years ago? Beside your gun rights..”

Steve K wrote on September 11, 2007 1:48 AM:
“More than 100 people were arrested, during the Charger game, on Sunday. Most of the arrests were for drunkenness or fighting. Do we ban drinking at Qualcom?”

Christopher Hall wrote on September 11, 2007 1:53 AM:
“This is a lost blog if I ever saw one — we have cops to arrest the few bad apples. I am shocked how erroneous this blog is when it leads the claim that the so-called riotous drunk minors represent the larger population. This blog lost all credibility with that concept. // Hire 2 cops per 1,000 now Sanders! There should be a law in place that mandates minimum staffing for all police, fire, EMT positions, and the city should be severely penalized for not meeting certain hiring goals set forth in this proposed legislation. // I will challenge Ron to work with me proposing legislation to mandate public safety job minimums for the city of San Diego. Who else would support this citizens’ initiative.”

EPeterson wrote on September 11, 2007 2:34 AM:
“I can’t agree with the commentary for a couple of reasons. It is well established that where there is copious consumption of alcohol there is fuel for an array of criminal activity. Eliminate the alcohol and reduce the need for policing the beach so that streets can be policed. Also, Some people want to go to the beach but are not keen to be around drinking people. So do we have to have a drinking section because of this? I used to drink a lot and it always made sense to me that drinking be done at home and in bars.”

Steve wrote on September 11, 2007 3:53 AM:
“I’m with you 100% on this one Christopher Hall.”

RW wrote on September 11, 2007 8:15 AM:
“Chris Hall, You can contact me at eagle2ron@hotmail.co I will be glad to discuss your idea with you and see if you are serious. I for one will NEVER AGREE TO ANY MORE CONCESSIONS from this City and the Citizens of San Diego should demand they receive the best of the best and are willing to pay for that. I know that is a pipe dream at this point, but for being the second largest city in Ca. they should as citizens expect a heck of a lot more than what our city council and mayor and Chief is giving them. Our revenue allows for it, and they lying if they tell you different.”

Billy Bob Henry wrote on September 11, 2007 12:45 PM:
“I hope RW can find a job in the private sector paying more than the national median for his HS diploma, if not he is going to be tgaking a 200% pay decrease from his over paid PD job with that HS diploma.”